Dear fandom

[yagathai]

Did you ever wonder why Worldcon is shrinking, why fandom is greying, why new people aren't joining at the same rate that the old-guard is dying out?

This is the problem, friends. This is the problem. In fact, honestly, every single comment by Eric Van in these two posts is the problem.

Now, it would be easy to say that calimac and ericmvan's tin-eared comments weren't carefully considered, the result of post-con burnout and irritation and ultimately just the cranky brayings of a couple of disgruntled old-timers. That may or may not be, but ultimately their attitude is representational -- and symptomatic of the greater issue.

In brief, the problem is that like any other dynamic entity, fandom is constantly faced with the choice to adapt or die, and time and time and time again, they have chosen not to adapt. The old guard, having found their promised land, promptly built a wall around it and decided that anyone who didn't conform to their standard would be rebuffed, rejected and cast out from their private playground. I see this attitude reflected a hundred times a day at every convention I go to, in every programming track, every panel discussion, every dealer's table, every closed circle of grey ponytails at almost every room party I've ever been to. It's a combination of institutional myopia and the fear of becoming irrelevant -- it's difficult, after all, for the chronically insecure to relenquish their stranglehold on being the big fishes in the tiny, tiny pond.

As a result -- well, see for yourself. Worldcon, once the gathering of the nerd tribes, has a good year when it hits 8,000 people, the average example of which is probably pretty close to collecting Social Security. By contrast, Otakon is a non-profit, volunteer-operated anime convention that started in 1994 with less than 400 attendees. Today, average draw is about 26,000 with an average attendee not old enough to legally drink yet. And it's by no means unique -- DragonCon has 30,000, the bigger anime cons pull 40,000, and San Diego Comicon regularly breaks 100,000.

The simple, logical and Darwinian solution is to let the old-model conventions die out by simple attrition -- sooner or later, peanut-butter-and-cheeto sandwiches and scooter accidents will take their toll, and all that will be left are the for-profit, new-model conventions, the slick commercial operations run by multibillion-dollar corporations.

On the other hand, where does that leave us, the (dwindling) generation of younger fans? I'm looking at you, stegoking, yuki_onna, tithenai, redstapler, rosefox, misunderstruck, farwing, xraytheenforcer, aghrivaine, zarhooie, kdsorceress and all the rest of you that I'm too tired to name. What's the solution, assuming we don't all decide to pull a Paul T. Riddell* and retire from fandom to pursue a (admittedly very entertaining) career of flinging poo at the grognards from the sidelines?

Frankly, I don't really know, but something's going to have to be done. I tend to be conservative by inclination, but every con that I attend makes me want to declare a revolution, storming the barricades and flinging greybeards** from the ramparts, just a little bit more. It seems as if the first step might be organization, though what form that organization would take, I have no idea.

And yes, txtriffidranch, I know what you're thinking, but first of all I don't have chains that heavy, and besides where would we find anthills big enough?

* Whose books, incidentally, I highly recommend.
** a gender-neutral term, often literally so.

ETA: Cross-linking of this post would be welcome. I'm looking for dialogue, to help create ideas.

Comments

[aghrivaine.livejournal.com]

I loathe and fear change!

(actually I empathize with Mr. Van's sentiments RE: being overworked, if not his means of expressing them. Just a coupla WorldCon parties for the BWB were more than enough to burn me out.)

[aghrivaine.livejournal.com]

Also, my father's convention would be a bunch of drunken bastards slappin' kids. I wouldn't want to attend my father's con.

[kylecassidy.livejournal.com]

So you're saying that if I wait till Worldcon is run dry of all other members but me I'll be able to vote myself a dozen Hugos?!

I hope the bases are cool that year.

[ckd]

Well, if you're the whole con I suspect you'll be stuck making the bases anyway.

[smofbabe.livejournal.com]

every con that I attend makes me want to declare a revolution, storming the barricades and flinging greybeards** from the ramparts, just a little bit more

Uh-oh - hope I'm not the very first up against the wall when the revolution comes...

I've already spoken up to support much of your contention in the calimac posting so I won't do it again here. However, I will say that I would really, really hate for worldcon to become a 26,000-person convention. Size doesn't matter shouldn't be the primary way we judge our success or our popularity. Frankly, a worldcon with any more than about 8,000 people would kill those who put them on!

And without naming names, I'd also like to point out that even you young'uns have people posting opinions that do not, shall we say, reflect an attitude that the rest of you can point to with pride.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

No, you'll be spared.

Size may not be the primary way to judge the health of a convention, but growth vs. stagnation is of primary concern, I think.

And you're right -- but we're not in charge, nor are we the dominant culture (yet). =)

[stegoking.livejournal.com]

I would have helped taking over Readercon for a year. Rather than lose it for a year, anyway.

This is just a case of hubris, nothing more or less. I understand. It happens. I was convinced of my own indispensability as a young Sergeant of Marines. In fact, on some level I was convinced there might not be a Marine Corps at all if I worked less than 18 hours a day. I was keeping that shit afloat, ya know?

An old grizzled Gunny (probably 30 or so) pulled me aside and told me I that while I was a solid asset, the Marine Corps would go on long after I was done, and that I did not have to kill myself. And furthermore, while I was solid in some areas, I was incompetent in an important aspect of leadership -- delegation.

He was right. I was 21. Eric M. Van has been running Readercon for 20 years. I'm pretty sure he's old enough to fucking know better.

[eefster.livejournal.com]

That delegation thing was actually pointed out to him, and (as far as I can see) only met with "but I'm the only person qualified with as much free time as I've decided it takes!"

Others say they have volunteered, this time and previously, and gotten no response.

Me, I've never been to Readercon. I like some of the ideas, but what I'm hearing about it now (admittedly from unhappy sources) doesn't make me want to ever bother to attend.

[eefster.livejournal.com]

I'm still curious what a GRE score has to do with running a con. I know it was tempered with something like "or the equivalent skill set", but really? GRE-waving from people out of grad school application time??

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

I know. Seriously. *vomit*

[zarhooie.livejournal.com]

It should be mentioned that I don't do cons these days, except for Pi-Con and that's only because it's so close.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

=(

[xraytheenforcer.livejournal.com]

My mind is not quite in this one right now, but I'll give this one a think during the lucid periods over the next couple of days.

[xraytheenforcer.livejournal.com]

In the meantime, I'm going to be flinging poo, because I think that's all I'm going to be capable of. Ha. I AM A GOLDEN GOD! (I'M ON DRUGS!!!!)

[pocketseizure.livejournal.com]

You know, we're in totally different fandoms, so I'm not sure that I even have a right to reply. I've been following your posts for awhile, though, and I've been really intrigued. Also, since flinging poo is so much fun, I'm going to take a stab at it.

I totally agree with what you have been saying about fan fail. Since you bring up examples like Otakon and Dragoncon, though, I guess I'd like to say that there is plenty of fan fail at cons like that, too. A bunch of idiot high school kids running around is no fun for an older person (and I'm only 25!), and younger fans have a way of being exclusive, too. Also, a lot of younger fans (at least at anime conventions) tend to be really immature and obnoxious, and I would totally find a way to exclude most of them if I had the power as a SMOF.

That being said, it's also no fun when you can respect and appreciate the attitude and contribution of the established fans, have something to contribute, and are then totally ignored by everyone in a fandom because you just got there. I think that some people in fandom are really, really happy to have finally found an in-group, but that the only way they can maintain their feeling of in-group-ness is by aggressively creating an immediate out-group. I guess I kind of understand the mentality, because it's awesome when you're on the inside, but still. Fandom, and especially conventions, shouldn't work like that, right?

I apologize for the inarticulate and incohesive rant. I don't know whether I'm agreeing with you or disagreeing with you or what. It's just that a lot of people in Japan-related fandoms don't want to talk about stuff like this, which makes me feel like I'm crazy for having noticed it. So thank you for having brought all this up.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

I think that some people in fandom are really, really happy to have finally found an in-group, but that the only way they can maintain their feeling of in-group-ness is by aggressively creating an immediate out-group.

I couldn't agree more, and that's a problem. But how can we solve it? A cultural shift seems to be the solution, but I have no idea how to accomplish that.

[grumpymonkey.livejournal.com]

Are you really looking to generate new ideas, or just hoping for some way to preserve the corpse in a new and exciting way?

Please, don't think I'm taking the piss out of you. I understand ReaderCon and cons like it are time-honored institutions and a real benefit to the fan community. I hate to see cons drop by the wayside, particularly when they have a long and fabled history of providing fan access to authors and creators, stimulating interest in sci-fi and fantasy and inspiring fans to learn more or do more. It's a social event for a lot of folks who may not have access to a lot of social events.

The convention was created in an age when access to fan materials was limited, even in larger cities. You went to them to find out about stuff your local bookstore might not have shelved because it wasn't popular with the majority of customers. You went to meet with folks of like mind who, like you, spent much of their time either being stuffed in lockers or hiding their fandom. It was THE social event for nerds, geeks and other folks who loved the genre.

That age ended.

Now sci-fi has it's own freaking CHANNEL on basic cable. A majority of the movies in theatres this summer have a sci-fi, fantasy or horror theme. There is more sci-fi and fantasy than you can shake a stick at in the bookstores, and you no longer have to trust your local bookstore to carry it. The web has created a plethora of options to the reader. The "cool kids" like sci-fi now. Popular girls read all about vampires. If you want to socialize there are dozens of outlets for the fan of whatever genre you enjoy.

Take a look at GenCon for an example. It used to be the biggest gaming and roleplaying convention in the country. It suffered a little when roleplaying games lost some of thier popularity. It's still huge, but how did they do that? They rolled with what the attendees were into. Sure there are a lot of the same tropes and even a lot of roleplaying, but it grew. Now there is miniature gaming, card gaming, board gaming, video gaming. They expanded their scope. In a sense, they stayed TRUE to their credo of providing the discriminating gaming geek all of the options in the industry. Did the grognards grumble? Sure did. Did a lot of them leave? Sure enough. Did it bring in droves of people from every sci-fi/gaming subculture to tout their fandom, easily replacing every undersocialized misanthrope with ten eager fans? Ayuh.

Trying to change the social atmosphere of ReaderCon is like shoveling sand. You're never going to get anywhere with that. As long as the same misanthropes and greybeards are in charge, unwilling to change, this con is going to continue to die. Fewer and fewer decent guests are going to want to go, because y'all no longer represent the majority of the fanbase. Fewer and fewer new attendees will become regular attendees. You need to make changes to the content of the con itself and let the social issues take care of themselves.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Hm. That's a great post, and some real food for thought.

... are the pain meds making you smarter? ;)

[oldcharliebrown.livejournal.com]

I'll note that we do have Wiscon . . .

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Which is problematic for a whole different set of reasons.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

Sympathies!

As you essentially say, it'll never be as good a light saber as it was a flash gun.

[popelizbet.livejournal.com]

I am not a big convention-goer. But I had a ridiculously good time at ThinkGalacticon, which was mostly younger people, and tiny, but was actually fun. Not a slick convention, but a fun one, one where there was plenty of time to spend three hours in a chair talking to someone I just met, and where I really never felt crowded or shut out.

I told Mr. Van I won't be attending Readercon due to his rude and unprofessional behavior, and that's true; if you're rude to two of my friends in two days in the course of supposedly discussing their concerns about a project of which you're the chief representative, I'm not really interested in your project thereafter, not least because I know how your reaction is going to go if I ever feel the need to be critical of that project.

As for solutions, I'm not sure I have any exactly; my experience is not broad enough. But I do know that the less-than-100-people-convention with a culture I enjoy sounds more delightful to me as a use of resources than attending a much more popular/well-established con with a culture that sounds antithetical to the things I enjoy about conventions...so it may be that people seek out different things, or even start different events, to get what they want out of their congoing experience. Is that the best way? Probably not; from the stories I've heard things can get fractious when that happens. But I think it's better than the only options being "Slick Five Figure Corporate Convention" and "Shoestring Convention At Which I'm Not Really Welcome to Say Nothing of My Friends".

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

There is definitely a middle ground, and that's someplace where I hope to find myself someday.

[thanate.livejournal.com]

Here from yuki_onna... I don't know if this is at all useful to the debate or not, but I think it's an angle that I haven't seen yet:

I am not really part of fandom, or a con-goer. I've been reading fantasy since, well, before I could read, since my parents read it to me, but I'm not a movie or TV person at all, and in my head growing up SF/F conventions were all about Star Trek fans, and so I never really looked into them. Just recently, I've been becoming aware of the existence of cons that have writing-centric panels, and appearances of authors I actually read, and I look forward to the day when I have the relevant time and money to attend one of them. I was desperately disappointed that I couldn't make Readercon this year, as half the advertised schedule was things I actually wanted to go to, and I am holding my breath about what next year is going to turn into.

But in the mean time, I did go to Otakon last year, as it's about 20 minutes of public transit away from my house. And while I loved the art room, and was greatly amused watching all the costumed people running around, there was not a single panel that I found worth going to. And, too, I'm not at all interested in an environment where any panel worth its salt requires waiting in line for an hour or two to ensure getting a seat, as Dragoncon has been described to me. A con of 500, with well thought out programming, even by the Old School, sounds much better to me, and I would rather not go to a fantasy con that draws out the rabid Harry Potter and Twilight crowds. But I've been reading some of your arguments, and as I said I started at yuki_onna's journal, and I definitely don't want to go to something that would lose or alienate the younger generation of authors, either. Or the fans/readers in the late-20s and up age bracket, or the younger people who read like they do (which was definitely me, a decade ago.)

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Right, and that's one of my primary concerns -- how do we welcome, and not turn away, people new to the culture?

[txtriffidranch.livejournal.com]

I won't call for chains or anthills. Instead, I'll call for someone to try something different. You're right in that the problem with conventions is the same as with the rest of the genre: too many fevered egos who manage to demonstrate the Peter Principle works even at the lowest levels. Everyone's also absolutely right in that the days of the convention as sole opportunity to meet fellow writers and readers is as dead as home milk delivery and digest fiction magazines. Sadly, everyone's right in that you have a lot of individuals who like it that way, and they're the ones expecting the mere attendees to bow and curtsy when they walk by. The slan has been replaced by Cat Piss Man, and he's just as arrogant about his place in the universe.

Now, I'll admit that I quit attending Readercon for many reasons, even though several good and dear friends continue to attend and run various operations behind the scenes. The first is that I learned a very long time ago never to trust any convention where the convention chair lists himself as a guest solely by dint of running the convention. It's right up there with the magazine editors who take multiple Glamour Shots poses for publication in Locus. (Sorry, kids, but your chosen profession requires you to be the silent partner behind the scenes. I used to work for a weekly newspaper editor who regularly threw tantrums because he wasn't recognized and adored on the street, and my basic response was "Having Buddy Holly's glasses, Fat Elvis's physique, and Phil Collins's hair will NOT make you a rock star.")

Unfortunately, until someone kicks Eric Van's ass out of the chair and tells him that the con is going to be run in a sane fashion, nothing's going to change. That little letter about how he's burned out wasn't a resignation or even a call for assistance. That was a pathetic cry for attention, so that people will pat him on the head and tell him that he's the greatest for having been a complete control freak about the convention for the last twenty years. If he really was burned out, and if he cared about Readercon as anything other than a validation of his ego, he'd have stepped aside, offered his advice to his successor but otherwise left well enough alone, and dealt with the fact that he's not absolutely indispensable. Instead, he's going to continue to insist upon being in charge, until he's either deposed or he dies.

As for myself, I know that this is going to piss off a few of Van's sycophants, and I fully expect that he's going to pop up and whimper about how this is all completely unfair. The nice thing about having gotten the hell out of the field, all the way round, is that if I get threats about not being invited to attend incompecons, I can just quote one of the great philosophers of the Nineteenth Century: "Oh, Puh-LEEEEEEZE, Brer Fox, don't throw me in that briar patch!"

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

The slan has been replaced by Cat Piss Man, and he's just as arrogant about his place in the universe.

I love that sentence.

[rosefox]

My solution was to volunteer. I've already gotten back a "yes please" (details TBD). I think that if people want change, they have to make change happen. The first step is organization, and it's organization that already exists: the organization of the cons themselves.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Yes, and after a decade of volunteering the SMOFs might start taking you seriously.

Don't get me wrong -- I think that volunteering is important, but I don't think it's the route to cultural change, at least not change that will happen fast enough to fix con culture before it disintegrates.

[lugajetboygirl.livejournal.com]

Then there is this sort of attitude, always a pleasure (slap in the face) to see:

http://occasionalsuperheroine.blogspot.com/2009/07/attack-of-50-foot-fangirls.html

[emilytheslayer.livejournal.com]

IIIII was planning on friending you anyway, after this weekend. This kinda cements that.


Hi.


But I don't have thoughts on this just yet, as I'm currently babysitting, but I am thinking about it.

[dynix.livejournal.com]

Hi, I got here by way of yuki_onna's journal.
This entire debate was a really interesting read, reflected a lot of things I've seen in various clubs and societies I've been involved with.

Mind if I friend you? Your info says to ask to be added for 'the good stuff' entries wise. Have to admit I'm curious:)

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Knock yourself out.

By "good stuff", I mean mostly "whining about my personal life". Just FYI. =)

[coraa.livejournal.com]

The contrast between the anime cons I attend and the sf/f cons I (mostly used to) attend is astonishing. Which isn't to say that anime cons don't have their problems -- they definitely do -- but, well, as a teen I went to sf/f cons a fair bit and always felt like a noob and an outsider, and then after college I started going to anime cons and the thing I immediately noticed was, "Hey! There are people here my age! And my gender! A lot of them! I guess this is where the young people -- especially the young women -- are."

[dressdragn.livejournal.com]

most anime cons are 60% female. we out number them!

[dicotomygrrl.livejournal.com]

As far as I can tell the way to fight this is to become involved, to make ourselves the establishment, and once we are to make sure we remain open to outside influences and opinions. Be the change,I know it sounds simplistic but it kinda is. All of these concom are complaining of being over worked so dig in and make yourself a part of it, if enough like minded people do then a change is inevitable. If nothing else, vote with your feet and start something new like yuki_onna. Above all let's play nice and not sink to their level.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

But... but... sinking to their level is kind of my stock in trade.

Honey, when are you going to realize that you can’t win by playing on the losing side?

[dressdragn.livejournal.com]

It seems like you have a sentimental attachment to the good old days too, or something b/c you keep kicking over these smelly windmills hoping to uncover something other then neck beard hierarchical nerd dick waving. From my extremely limited experience it seems the organization of these shows is just an endless spiral of cocks all the way down.

Old guard scifi cons are sad like Athens is sad, it seems like everyone is standing around in the ruins of some forgotten glory being like we were the first, the greatest in our day (but even sadder b/c the food sucks and there are no topless beaches).

Why dose it have to be world con for you every year? There are plenty of tribes at dragon con. A couple of authors have approached us about doing panels at New York Anime Fest. They aren’t anime guys, they just want the exposure that the third largest Anime show in the country can give them.

You didn’t seem to mind my multibillion-dollar corporation mortgaged my soul to be a part of the show when you came down to comic con last year.

Here is my for serious advice to you, pack up your shit, gather everyone who is worth saving and lead your people out of the desert. Build something that’s worth them going to, and they will come. The first few years will be hard, you might feel a little like your start up programming track is the ‘I read books’ ghetto, but once you reach critical mass it’ll be like having your whole own little convention.

Also I should mention a growing portion of our too young to drink attendees look like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27594459@N04/3637582314/in/set-72157619767720367/

That’s right, we’re drinking your young blood, come and take it back from us.

~Anna

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

I am turning 44 in...pauses to look at time on 'puter...eight hours. I am a fan of lit and of media. I adore Worldcon and I equally adore Dragon*Con, each for different reasons (I avoid Comic-Con like the plague, despite it being practicially on my back doorstep because that's just too many of my fellow fanbois and fangrrls for my taste).

Now, you wanna know the problem with greying fandom? I will tell you.

It's that the genre itself has shifted. My godson, all 19 years and 6-foot and some change of him, looks at me like I've grown a third eyeball when I tell him about the (not so) good old days when being a fan was a "proud and lonely thing."

That's not his world. In his world, SF is on his cable TV. It's reguarly in the movie theaters. He lives and breathes it. Furthermore, he's not doing it alone. He can find fans all over the world who share his interests.

If calimac and ericmvan want ReaderCon to be "a proud and lonely thing" well, that's OK, I guess. That's what their world is. Not what *I* think SF should be, but there you are then.

But what slays me every time? Is when the very greybeards who chase those damn kids off their SF con lawns sit around, scratching those beards *wondering why the kids are all playing down the block.* How about -- *because you told them they weren't doing it "right," so they went and found somewhere else to play.*

I've seen this on countless "Greying of Fandom" panels. And there's not a panelist younger than me up there. By fannish standards, I may well be considered a young'un.

The point being that if that's what folk want ReaderCon to be, that's their choice. But they then have no cause to bitch because all they ever see around them is snow on the roof.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Happy birthday!

[losyark.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this; it needs to be said.

There are several cons in the southern Ontario region which I have simply ceased attending because of horrid experiences with staff (will grant media passes but no interviews, won't help when my purse was snatched, etc.) or because I'm bored with the programming.

If I've seen/been on that panel last year, why would I spend $60 and do the same thing all over again but with different guests (who just get asked the same too-personal questions again by the same squirm-inducing fans with no sense of boundries, and answer them in the same professionally freaked out manner)?

I can't host a room party because I'm not important enough, but I loathe to be on the committee because it's a bunch of old-style grey-beards who won't accept innovative ideas and are rigid in their track of con-running.

There is, pretty much literally, no reason for me to be at these cons.

They offer me nothing I cannot find for myself (awesome music vids, the satisfaction of a weekend spent with like minded friends, comic books or art pieces or collectables, etc.) or go to a celebrity's website for (anecdotes, behind the scenes pics, etc.). In return I pay an exhorbitant fee for the priveledge to enter a dealer's room and spend even more money on merchandise that has been inflated for that weekend, or stand in line for hours for a too-brief moment of conversation with someone I greatly admire. The crowds leave me cranky, the day leaves me footsore, the food available is generally overpriced junk, and the worst of the fannish behaviour makes me feel ashamed.

The two things that cons give me that I cannot get else where are the cosplaying competitions and the amateur/artists alleys. I really enjoy experiencing the hard work of local artisans and authors. I like picking up the 'zines and the hands made jewellery. I like admiring costumes. Luckily there is cosplay.com and hardorenerdity.com is starting up an online artist's alley.

This is all to say that while I think cons still have a place in fanish society, they have to change or die. The old-school method of con running is stagnent and does not fit the needs and wants of the new-fan generations. Cons need to put more emphasis on fan initiatives - grant second teir media passes to online podcast hosts or the mods of popular websites, put an emphasis on fan activities and products over media sponsors and over-inflated merchandisers, and try to offer the fans an experience with the guests that is more relaxing and less tedious for all involved.

Anyway. I like cons. I just don't go any more because I'm bored of them.

[losyark.livejournal.com]

PS - I tried volunteering, too. It's was horrendous all the times I did; unorganized, insulting and condesending when I tried to make my own panels, frustrating, and I got no respect or thanks afterwards. That lasted for all of one year at all of two cons.

Only once have I enjoyed volunteering for programing, and that was because a celebrity guest was running it and was therefore not blocked on any turn by the con-runners. It went smoothly and was enjoyable and drew a great crwod.

If every volunteer experience was like that, I would be there in a flash.

[measi.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom...

I agree with quite a bit of your post, although I disagree as to some of why WorldCon specifically is decreasing in popularity. I'll argue a lot of it is the cost. I went to the one in Boston several years back. I had a great time and DID find a bunch of panels I wanted to attend, but the cost was also pretty painful - and I live in the Boston area, so it's not like I'm not used to city prices on things. But maybe the Boston crew was rare among WorldCon organizers. I haven't had the finances to go to any of them since.

For the most part, though, the problem is as you say: the current con chairs who refuse to listen to the younger generations as to what to include. They beg for help, but don't answer offers TO help. And when suggestions on improvements or changes are made after the con, they're responded to with shouting, insulting, and general nastiness. A lot of the panels are dry, dull, and outdated.

It leads to the question of "So if you don't want suggestions or help, then really - why bother asking?"

I haven't been to cons in three years now. If I do go attend a con, it'll definitely be DragonCon, which appears to just be insanely fun or head out to San Diego for the glorious insanity that will happen this weekend.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Worldcon is pricey, it's true, but it's roughly comparable in cost to SD Comicon, I think. Still, your smaller cons in the Worldcon model aren't really that expensive, relative to what you might pay for any other weekend event.

[primus.livejournal.com]

Holy crap dude, I bookmarked this yesterday planning to respond after work, and now it's at 150+ responses!

I'd also like to note that, as you point out in one of the threads, common courtesy and a willingness to be friendly and inviting are very rarely a *bad* thing. If you "don't have time", then that's just fine - but the *consequences* of that is that people may not be willing to join your little club.

But then, there's the point - do the people you shake a metaphorical fist at *perceive a problem*? If they're *happy* with things the way they are, then they really have no motivation to change. Sure, those of us who aren't quite as... seasoned grew up in a vastly different Sci-Fi world than our forebears, and the thought that a community must be closed and insular is a bit baffling.....

.... to a degree. I'm part of *another* community (to a greater or lesser degree) that is insular and scared of outsiders, but claims a desire to invite in the n00bs. Like the Legacy Con crowd, the Old Guard came of age in vastly different circumstances than hold true today, but there are more than a few who still cling to That Which Was compared to That Which Can Be Now.

One solution is for the n00bs to form their own, parallel group, but the cost is to lose out on the valuable experiences the older generation can bring. So that doesn't tend to be really sustainable.

Another is to earn positions of authority, and lead the crowd in a new direction. The legacy crowd will likely kvetch about how things Aren't As They Used To Be, but while some will drop, and some will sit in the corner and scowl sullenly, some will adapt.

So the question is, how does one gain a position of authority and respect at a Con?

And there's the rub, because it ain't a democracy. While Worldcon is a good example - They Who Place The Bid have a lot more leeway than someone frustrated with a regional con.

So there's the answer - get on the local board for the local Sci Fi Society. For Philcon, for example, it'd require becoming a member in good standing of PSFS, and presumably working your way up. Become a member, bring friends, get elected.

Which will take time and dedication - but *that's* what is required to make any real changes worth making.

[yagathai.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's really exploded. I figured 20 responses, tops.