(no subject)
Oct. 12th, 2009 06:15 pmWhat's this? More More RaceFail ranting? Ah, yes, it certainly is.
For the record, I agree with
shweta_narayan more than I agree with Ottinger's original (and now redacted) post. That being said, in discussing the issue with
tithenai, I became aware of a couple of things that really bothered me.
First of all, the relentlessly sarcastic tone of Shweta's post really didn't help things at all. In a debate in which the lines are clear and pre-drawn, hostile and vitriolic exchanges never serve to change the minds of the undecided and only retrench the position of the opposition. Essentially it's really only preaching to the choir.
Further, while Ottinger did back down in this case, in general when the proponents of one side of an argument are stigmatized and stereotyped by the other side as shrill and perpetually outraged professional victims who harness a self-righteous martyrdom as a means of garnering support through sympathy in an effort to stifle reasoned dissent*, it really doesn't help any to play into the stereotype by being, well, self-righteous and hostile. Even if that attitude is justified, it's only going to energize the opposition's base.
I'm not saying Shweta shouldn't have reacted however she liked, of course. I'm just saying that her reaction, phrased as it was, really isn't helpful to the debate at large, and I wish it was more so, seeing as I largely agree with her and wish more people would do the same.**
But there was another thing that came up in the course of my conversation with Amal that bothered me. If you were to hire me to assemble an anthology called "The Ten Best SF Stories Of All Time", it would be pretty even odds that every single one of those stories would be by a white guy (most of whom are old, many of whom are dead). I can think of maybe one or two stories that might, maybe, possibly elbow their way in to the bottom of that list by a non-white and/or non-dude if I was feeling particularly contrary after breakfast, but if I'm going to populate that antho honestly, well, there you have it. Monochromatic and single-sex.
It's not that I'm not widely read, and I certainly don't harbor any prejudices against fiction based on the author's genetic status. Nevertheless, my top ten list, an honest selection of what I think are the best stories the genre has to offer, judged by as close to an objective standard as you can get when classifying art, is by old white dudes.
Each story is a critical favorite, and taken on their own none of the stories would be an especially controversial choice (with one possible exception, Leiber's Space-Time for Springers, which I hold in much higher esteem than most genre fans). I mean, you can personally dislike A Rose for Ecclesiastes, but it's a credible choice for any top ten list. Ditto A Study in Emerald, Flatland and so on.
If I did this, selected the ten best stories in science fiction and published them in an anthology called that, I would be torn apart on the internet if they were all white dudes. Seriously. I'd get harangued and vilified like Colonel Sanders at a PETA rally, my name and reputation dragged through the mud. I would be strongly, strongly pressured into throwing in at least a token woman and/or ethnic minority, a Singing My Sister Down or The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas or Time Considered As A Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (all of which merit an entry in my top twenty-five, but not my top ten) if only to spare myself the social approbation.
That's... that's terrible, isn't it? That I'm feeling intimidated by the inevitable attacks on my character and the professional and personal repercussions, of what would be an honest expression of my judgement? That I would feel the urge to pander to a particularly angry, vocal segment of the fandom?
I think that maybe that's a sign of how this debate has crossed waaaaaay over the line of civility into the realm of shouting and insults. Problem is, I don't know what to do about it.
* In the interests of fairness, I should point out that each side of this argument is as guilty of vicious stereotyping as the other.
** Yes, I am a terrible hypocrite. So sue me.
For the record, I agree with
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First of all, the relentlessly sarcastic tone of Shweta's post really didn't help things at all. In a debate in which the lines are clear and pre-drawn, hostile and vitriolic exchanges never serve to change the minds of the undecided and only retrench the position of the opposition. Essentially it's really only preaching to the choir.
Further, while Ottinger did back down in this case, in general when the proponents of one side of an argument are stigmatized and stereotyped by the other side as shrill and perpetually outraged professional victims who harness a self-righteous martyrdom as a means of garnering support through sympathy in an effort to stifle reasoned dissent*, it really doesn't help any to play into the stereotype by being, well, self-righteous and hostile. Even if that attitude is justified, it's only going to energize the opposition's base.
I'm not saying Shweta shouldn't have reacted however she liked, of course. I'm just saying that her reaction, phrased as it was, really isn't helpful to the debate at large, and I wish it was more so, seeing as I largely agree with her and wish more people would do the same.**
But there was another thing that came up in the course of my conversation with Amal that bothered me. If you were to hire me to assemble an anthology called "The Ten Best SF Stories Of All Time", it would be pretty even odds that every single one of those stories would be by a white guy (most of whom are old, many of whom are dead). I can think of maybe one or two stories that might, maybe, possibly elbow their way in to the bottom of that list by a non-white and/or non-dude if I was feeling particularly contrary after breakfast, but if I'm going to populate that antho honestly, well, there you have it. Monochromatic and single-sex.
It's not that I'm not widely read, and I certainly don't harbor any prejudices against fiction based on the author's genetic status. Nevertheless, my top ten list, an honest selection of what I think are the best stories the genre has to offer, judged by as close to an objective standard as you can get when classifying art, is by old white dudes.
Each story is a critical favorite, and taken on their own none of the stories would be an especially controversial choice (with one possible exception, Leiber's Space-Time for Springers, which I hold in much higher esteem than most genre fans). I mean, you can personally dislike A Rose for Ecclesiastes, but it's a credible choice for any top ten list. Ditto A Study in Emerald, Flatland and so on.
If I did this, selected the ten best stories in science fiction and published them in an anthology called that, I would be torn apart on the internet if they were all white dudes. Seriously. I'd get harangued and vilified like Colonel Sanders at a PETA rally, my name and reputation dragged through the mud. I would be strongly, strongly pressured into throwing in at least a token woman and/or ethnic minority, a Singing My Sister Down or The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas or Time Considered As A Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (all of which merit an entry in my top twenty-five, but not my top ten) if only to spare myself the social approbation.
That's... that's terrible, isn't it? That I'm feeling intimidated by the inevitable attacks on my character and the professional and personal repercussions, of what would be an honest expression of my judgement? That I would feel the urge to pander to a particularly angry, vocal segment of the fandom?
I think that maybe that's a sign of how this debate has crossed waaaaaay over the line of civility into the realm of shouting and insults. Problem is, I don't know what to do about it.
* In the interests of fairness, I should point out that each side of this argument is as guilty of vicious stereotyping as the other.
** Yes, I am a terrible hypocrite. So sue me.